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Neuraltus
RL Schafferr
Posted: Monday, January 17, 2011 7:38:53 PM

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There's always WF10 , I guess..if we get desperate..Ron
Fernando GCV
Posted: Sunday, January 23, 2011 6:41:25 PM
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Well, I have been able to contact biomaxx on WF10 and I copy the email they sent to me. I believe is quite interesting and as you can see some questions araise... but it´s late in Spain and I´ve to get up soon tomorrow, so I leave the plain email without any comment. It´ll be very appreciated any comment on the information they provide.

Good night.

___________________

First of all please forgive me my poor English but I do my best to make it understandable.

Yes we use Immunokine (WF10) more than 10 years and we have very good experience with this preparation by different types of cancer, by chronic inflammations and also by chronic infections but only by round about 40 ALS-patients within the last 3 years. That’s not a lot of patients but we can say in general Immunokine is very helpful and can reduce or eliminate the symptoms. That means one of the most important results is a better life quality and in conclusion our data show that under the conditions used it may inhibit the expected effects.

I am sorry, it nearly impossible to explain by an email letter why it works and how it works. Anyway, we are happy to have a weapon against ALS, not an end solution. See some more information on the end of this email.

How to use:

I give you a brief impression about Immunokine treatment in principle:

A complete "course" needs 3 x 5 weeks; the complete course has 3 equal parts

Part I

1. INFUSION WEEK
5 days (day by day) Immunokine infusion with some other components (High-Doses-Vitamin C, B-complex, Glutathione etc.)

1 week rest

2. INFUSION WEEK
3 days infusion (day by day)

1 week rest

3. INFUSION WEEK
3 days infusion (day by day)

2 weeks rest

Part II (3 infusion weeks)
…the same like Part I

2 weeks rest

Part III (3 infusion weeks)
the same like Part I

Total course within 14 weeks needs 33 treatments (infusions). Yes, it’s a long treatment term but even successful.

The Immunokine dose is depending of the body weight but we use a bit more (20%) than the "normal" doses by cancer or as you can find in the general protocols: 0.75ml per kg body weiht. For example: 50kg x 0.75ml = round about 40ml; 2 vials.
Infusion time: minimum 3 hours.
We suggest to all of our patients to realize parallel an Oxygen-Multistep-Therapy, very simple but very helpful as well; that treatment support the Immunokine extremely.

The patient can do everything in home situation, just an educated nurse should setup the infusion; intravenously but absolute harmless.


Expensive:

Our (internal) purchase price by our supplier is THB 6,500,- ˜ 168,- € for 1 vial. Including an small profit we give our out patients a price of 180,- €.
We recommend our patients to order as well the other components in Thailand because it's much cheaper than everywhere else.

Calculation for 1 complete infusion:
- Approximate by 50kg body weight: 2 vials Immunokine solution: 2 x 180,- € = 360,- €
- 1 Vitamin-C solution (high dose; 25g): 25,- €
- Vitamin-B-1, 6, 12 solution (normal dose of B1, B6, B12): 15,- €
- Glutathione (10ml Solution): 10,- €

Total per infusion: 410,- €
Total complete course, 33 infusions: 33 x 410,- € = 13,530 €.
Minimum order by this low price is a complete course (33 treatments) Shipping EMS Thailand to Europe: 250,- €
Payment: 100% in advance

(By the way: It sounds expensive but Immunokine isn’t really expensive in comparison to other ALS preparation without benefit.)


Following some scientific basic information:

Introduction
Immunokine i.v. belong to the class of translational therapeutics T. he active principle is the inorganic ion Chlorite (CLO2-) which via the PI3K-NADPH-MPO pathway modulates inappropriate immunologic activation by driving inflammatory cell apoptosis and enhancing the resolution of inflammation.
Resolution of inflammation requires the effective down regulation of key inflammatory cells such as neutrophils and eosinophils which normally undergo programmed cell death (apoptosis)to enable their detection and removal by phagocytes such as macrophages (Rossi 2006). Removal of apoptotic cells by functional macrophages is a key mechanism for the successful solution of acute and chronic inflammation. Enhanced inflammatory cell apoptosis and enhanced phagocytosis of apoptotic cells (cells with phagocytic capacity are not only macrophages and dendritic cells but also hepatocytes, endothelial cells and epithelial cells) is therefore a promising therapeutic option.
Dysregulation of this “on” and “off” process leads to necrosis instead of apoptosis and thereby contributes to the pathogenesis and progression of chronic inflammatory diseases such as persistent allergic rhinitis, asthma, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), rheumatic disease or inflammatory bowel disease (Hallett 2008).
The chronic inflammatory process produces mediators, which do not stop but rather supports cancer growth, i.e. Phophoinositide-3-kinase (P I3K) is activated. Activated PI3K induces anti-apoptotic pathways associated with high risk for cancer development. All cancers are associated with high PI3K activation. It is noteworthy to remind that in the past it was thought that inflammation is needed to inhibit cancer growth.
Immunokine effectively down regulates inflammatory cells in humans already after one treatment cycle (5 consecutive infusions of 0.5 ml per kg BW). For example intracellular macrophage T NF-alpha expression is markedly elevated in patients with inflammatory neurodegenerative diseases like ALS or Dementia. Immunokine (WF10) treatment of blood from patients with dementia showed a marked down regulation of macrophage TNF-alpha expression suggesting the neutralization of this neurotoxin (Herndier et al. 2000). Hepatitis C infected Patients who had high gene expression of pro-inflammatory genes like IL-1f3, TNF-alpha, MlP-1alpha and beta etc all were uniform down regulated to normal values associated with resolution of inflammation (Isensee, Giese 2002).
In an animal model (collagen induced arthritis) Immunokine enhanced the clearance of accumulated granulocytes at the peak of inflammation, an effect associated with an increased number of apoptotic cells (Sack 2007). In patients with cervix or colon cancer who had radiotherapy induced chronic inflammation (post radiation syndrome like cystitis and proctitis) Immunokine effectively terminated the inflammation in the bladder and intestines as well as acute and chronic bleeding within 2 days (Vutisiri et all, 2004) Massive Oedema following radiation of Glioblastoma Stage IV and unresponsive to glucocorticoid treatment could be markedly reduced with Immunokine infusions within 2 days and clinically impressive terminated in 4 weeks (Eyb 2006).

Metabolism
Whereas Chlorite (CL02-) as the active principle of Immunokine reacts fast to Chloride (CL-) and Oxygen (O2) thereby inducing a longterm and significant Oxygen saturation in patients with progressed cancer disease (Dümke, Fleckenstein, Vaupel 1996) from 40 ppm to 80 ppm. Via the compound I (MPO-H202) complex it produces endogenously stable oxidants like Taurinchloramin (Giese 2005) and Monochloramin (Arnold 2006). Immunokine might also replace function of dysfunctional Myeloperoxidase (Arnhold 2007).
Taurin Chloramine (TN-CI) is one of the most abundant compounds generated by activated neutrophils and eosinophils. TN-CI is a most potent inducer of apoptosis in inflammatory and tumour cells (Shacter 2005).
Immunokine generated Taurinchloramine more then 100-fold in human cells (PBMC) (this levels were stable for 24 hours) and effectively inhibited Phophoinositide-3-kinase (PI3K gamma) and increased apoptosis (Arnhold 2006).
Phosphoinositide-3-kinase critically regulates the recruitment and survival of neutrophils and eosinophils in vivo. Eosinophils are effector cells that play an important role in the pathophysiology of allergic disease.
In allergic rhinitis or asthma, eosinophils are a crucial source of cytotoxic proteins, lipid mediators, oxygen metabolites, and cytokines like lL-4 and IL13, which contribute to the severity of the disease.
Meuer (2008) found marked inhibition of IL-4 and IL-13 (the latter are key cytokines involved in allergic inflammation) in 37 individuals treated with and without Immunokine.
Pinho et al. (2005) investigated the role of PI3K for the recruitment and survival of eosinophils into the pleural cavity of antigen-challenged and sensitized mice (PI3K gamma -/- male C57BU6 or BALB/c mice supplied by Taconic Farms, Inc. Germantown, N.Y. They also investigated the effect of PI3K inhibitors. Treatment with PI3K inhibitors (Wortmannin and LY294002) 24 hours after antigen challenge markedly cleared the accumulated eosinophils, an effect associated with inhibition of Akt phosphorylation and increased apoptosis. (See also Cortez-RetamozoV. et al. J. Clin. Invest. 6 Nov 2008) The phagocyte NADPH oxidase is a multicomponent enzyme complex mediating microbial killing. Phosphoinositides regulate several distinct steps in NADPH activation, such as phosphorylation of p47phox in human neutrophils and eosinophils (Perisic et al 2004).
Individuals with p4Tphox mutations were found to have high incidence of rheumatoid arthritis (Hallstrom 2006). Intracellular production of superoxide is reduced by PI3K inhibitors (Wortmannin and LY 294002).
Treatment of activated PBMC's with Immunokine demonstrated a dose dependent inhibition of superoxide. This was associated with markedly increased bacterizidie (Hänsch 2006). There are plentiful data demonstrating that Immunokine (WF10) is an anti-inflammatory drug (not anti-pro-inflammatory) exerting concurrent powerful innate immunity. This is a new mechanism of immune modulation with clinical benefit in chemotherapeutic cancer treatment associated with high risk for infection. In a clinical trial in 102 women with cervix cancer high significant less antibiotic or antiinfective comedication was needed (Vutisiri 2004).
MPO-Immunokine can replace function of Myeloperoxidase (MPO)


That’s all for the moment.
I wish all the best and warmest regards from Bangkok
RL Schafferr
Posted: Sunday, January 23, 2011 6:55:26 PM

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Fernando..how much is that in american dollars? And is it legal to ship to U. S. ? Thanks for a excellent post..Ron
Nemesis
Posted: Sunday, January 23, 2011 7:02:26 PM

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Thanx Fernando,

This is really interesting I propose to hunt down the refs provided and to go through the evidences. Needless to say I believe that a majority if not all the beneficial effects recorded are the secondary concequences of alleviating plain ol' cellular hypoxia through doubling oxygen saturation levels from 40 ppm to 80 ppm.

I also believe that they somehow have overlooked an important factor, the term "PI3K-pathway" should hence read; the PI3K/AKT-pathway.

The use of a combination treatment is also commendable.

Best regards,
Nemesis

Don't just ask what scientists can do to speed up the solution for ALS or when they will do it, instead ask yourself what you can do right now to solve ALS asap.
ENV
Posted: Sunday, January 23, 2011 10:55:17 PM

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It's around $19,000.00.

That was a pretty thorough response. Very interesting.

--
ENV
= Le meilleur vin, avec les meilleurs amis. =
criscapelo
Posted: Monday, January 24, 2011 8:02:59 AM
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ThankYou, Fernando.

Phew! That is a dough. If necessary I would pay for it. But my question is: is the value of the treatment the cost they charge? Because as far as I know its active is a simple molecule that by the way seems like bleach (not the same, I know). I've been having a look on the other names of WF10 like Ancloximex, Animexan, Balneozoon, Dermazoon, DesoPur, HydroXan, LegioCid, Oxilium, Oxocebron, Oxoferin, Oxomexan, Oxovasin, Oxovir, Oxoviron, Ryoxon (all them from Wikipedia) and some are simply cleaning products. As I'm not a scientific I don't know the authentic cost of producing that, but if my suspect is right and the prize is really abusive I can't get of my mind that they are taking advantage of people in a desperate situation.

Other bad point: what if you send the money and then get nothing in exchange? which law is protecting you? a delicate matter I think.

Today I'm quite distrustful ... it must be because it's Monday.

On the other side, if you want to get WF10 I'm afraid but not sure that the intravenous form is only commercialized in Thailand. Nuvo Research (Canada, USA and Europe) is making WF10 but I think that they commercialize only Oxoferin wich is a topic form of WF10. That's what I read in their web but to be sure it's better contacting them. I read also that they are on a trial with WF10 on several diseases.

Any thoughts?

Cristina
phuketrex
Posted: Monday, January 24, 2011 8:50:16 AM
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It still rings alarm bells for me that they have been around for several years yet there are no testimonials from patients on their web site who have had an effective treatment nor is there any proof anywhere on the Internet as far as I can see.
Nemesis
Posted: Monday, January 24, 2011 9:08:10 AM

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Wikipedia wrote:

Tetrachlorodecaoxide is also mitogenic and chemotactic. The mitogenic impulse gives rise to two factors, MDGF (Macrophage derived growth factor) and Macrophage derived growth factor. The MDGF deposits fibroblasts and synthesizes collagen fibers which fills the gap in the wounds, the WAF helps in the formation of new capillaries which further enhances the healing process.


Macrophage derived growth factor (MGDF) and Macrophage derived growth factor (WAF) seem to be growth factors of almost mythical proportions according to the limited number of hits, but with a clear relation to hypoxia, which may be identified by scholar.google.com

Don't just ask what scientists can do to speed up the solution for ALS or when they will do it, instead ask yourself what you can do right now to solve ALS asap.
Michael.Kastner
Posted: Monday, January 24, 2011 9:16:10 AM

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Thanks Fernando your english is great. Cristina wow! QUOTE "and some are simply cleaning products" Really???
And the cost is WOW !!! also
PS Cristina and Fernando My grand mother was from Andora Catalon....

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.”

OOOORUAHH !!!!!
Bubba
Posted: Monday, January 24, 2011 10:33:50 AM
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Link to notice for Phase 2 Clinical Trial of NP001 - "A Study of NP001 in Subjects With Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS)"

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01281631?term=np001&rank=2
prosons
Posted: Monday, January 24, 2011 11:05:56 AM

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Onset of symptoms less than 2 years prior to study entry,

Well, that takes me out of that study. It's been 26 months and the study wont commence at Mass General for another 2 mos.
Guess I'll do the Knopp trial and hope tp qualify for pIII.
Frank
Bubba
Posted: Monday, January 24, 2011 11:11:08 AM
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Frank,

I'm in the same boat, 36 months since onset. I'm on the list for the Knopp trial but the dates keeps getting pushed out...and now I can't even get a guess as to when it might start. Brainstorm seems to be stuck in place as well...and I won't even start on 486. Neuraltus is the only org that seems to be agressive, plan ahead, and treat development like a business.
prosons
Posted: Monday, January 24, 2011 12:20:22 PM

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Bubba,
I'm not sure Ph II Neuraltus is dosing enough to impact progression anyway is it?
Frank
criscapelo
Posted: Monday, January 24, 2011 12:53:30 PM
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phuketrex wrote:
It still rings alarm bells for me that they have been around for several years yet there are no testimonials from patients on their web site who have had an effective treatment nor is there any proof anywhere on the Internet as far as I can see.


Phuk, I also mistrust because of the reasons up mentioned. But the fact that there is nothing prooved of those PALS Biomaxx mentions says me little on this matter. Take in account that there is no way to prove it. Even if they publish their supposed success on the web it wouldn't be a valid proof.

Michael, Andorra is close to Catalonia (Spain) but it's an independent and quite small country. Such a small country that it's less than 100,000 inhabitants and so your grandmother sure was at least a special person. It's also the place where some reach spaniards are registered to pay less taxes. A very pretty place on the Pirineos mountains.

Cristina
Persevering
Posted: Monday, January 24, 2011 1:56:02 PM

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Several people from this forum have independently contacted Dr. Trogisch at BioMaxx. I suspect that guy has never administered WF10 (Immunokine) to any PALS and he nor his website have ever marketed toward those for ALS. So, I am surprised that this would raise alarm in and of itself. WF10 for the treatment of ALS seems to have been known by very few until this thread. Even NP001 has "existed" for half a decade, but was only recently mentioned. So, the passage of time without general awareness should not, alone, be cause for alarm. Dr. Trogisch is a doctor and a salesman and has never claimed to treat ALS. Why would people even expect that he should have a track record for the treatment of ALS??

Dr. Trogisch's price quotes to people have varied greatly and some have gotten lower quotes to have the drug administered by a physician under their oversight than others have to receive the drug for "self" administration.

His protocol does remain fairly consistently stated, and without any stated valid reason has more frequent and greater dosing than has ever been mentioned in the numerous clinical studies conducted for other ailments or related patent documents. I am not a doctor, but if I were to try it, I'd be careful to avoid his "extras" and stick with the dose amount and frequency quoted so many times which is:

0.5 milliters per kilogram of body weight per dose. 5 days consecutively followed by 16 day break. Repeat 5 days on, 16 days off for 4 to 5 cycles (or 20-25 total doses).

His protocol has a person getting double the dosage (1 ml/kg) and 33 total doses. (in Fernando's post he mentions 2 vials for 50 kg. This is 40 ml for 50 kg or 0.8 ml/kg, so he does vary in his stated dose). I figured it out for my own body weight and 20 total doses at his best quoted price would have been under US$8,000 by following the more standard protocol.

There is reason for caution in dealing with Dr. Trogisch....

In light of the expected, and now confirmed, 2 year post onset exclusion criteria for NP001, it sure would be nice to have reliable availability to WF10, that in my judgement has demonstrated safety many times over. The latest safety confirmation comes from a successful phase II trial for hay fever. It is amazing that a drug seems to hold such promise for ALS and is safe enough to treat hay fever, yet us terminal PALS can only wish..........



per·se·vere [pur-suh-veer] - to persist in anything undertaken; maintain a purpose in spite of difficulty, obstacles, or discouragement; continue steadfastly.
Persevering
Posted: Monday, January 24, 2011 2:33:20 PM

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prosons wrote:
Bubba,
I'm not sure Ph II Neuraltus is dosing enough to impact progression anyway is it?
Frank


Frank - Do you have some information regarding actual dosage levels for NP001 Phase II? The trial mentions 3 arms: Placebo, Low Dose and High Dose, but does not quantify these.

I will offer that when I talked to one of the Neuraltus Founders at the December symposium, that they were planning to begin further mouse testing with a higher dosage pending positive results 6 months into phase II. And, that was going to take 1 year to complete and was a prerequisite for Phase III. I interpreted this as they are intending on higher doses. Also, as I recall, the way that Neuraltus quoted doses was different than the ml/kg doses quoted for WF10, and thus did not enable any sort of comparison. NP001 was administered as mg/kg, so a unit of mass and not volume. Odd for an IV drug, but perhaps intentionally concealing reality. Wouldn't the phase II doses generally include the levels of an eventual phase III?

per·se·vere [pur-suh-veer] - to persist in anything undertaken; maintain a purpose in spite of difficulty, obstacles, or discouragement; continue steadfastly.
Persevering
Posted: Monday, January 24, 2011 2:55:03 PM

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criscapelo wrote:

I've been having a look on the other names of WF10 like Ancloximex, Animexan, Balneozoon, Dermazoon, DesoPur, HydroXan, LegioCid, Oxilium, Oxocebron, Oxoferin, Oxomexan, Oxovasin, Oxovir, Oxoviron, Ryoxon (all them from Wikipedia) and some are simply cleaning products.

On the other side, if you want to get WF10 I'm afraid but not sure that the intravenous form is only commercialized in Thailand. Nuvo Research (Canada, USA and Europe) is making WF10 but I think that they commercialize only Oxoferin wich is a topic form of WF10. That's what I read in their web but to be sure it's better contacting them. I read also that they are on a trial with WF10 on several diseases.


Christina - I don't believe all of those names are WF10. The base is TCDO and it is sold in two dilutions. The 1:10 dilution is WF10 only marketed as Immunokine in Thailand, but manufactured in Germany. A 1:55 dilution is sold as a topical solution under many names and in multiple locations. See this link: http://www.nuvoresearch.com/groups/oxoferin.htm

Nuvo Research only sells WF10 in Thailand. All of their research with WF10 is done by their branch in Germany. Bubba, from this forum, has conversed with Nuvo Research and learned this.

I am confident there is a large mark-up on Immunokine as with any drug. They certainly wouldn't sell it just to recover their manufacturing cost. An earlier article posted in this thread quoted a price when it was available under a special access program in Canada. It was stated as $1200 to $1600 per cycle. A cycle would be 5 doses, so the "normal" 4 cycle protocol would have ranged from $4800 to $6400. This enables a reality check against Dr. Trogisch's price.

per·se·vere [pur-suh-veer] - to persist in anything undertaken; maintain a purpose in spite of difficulty, obstacles, or discouragement; continue steadfastly.
Michael.Kastner
Posted: Monday, January 24, 2011 3:30:36 PM

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Location: United States Santa Fe New Mexico
Are any of you taking any of these drugs????

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.”

OOOORUAHH !!!!!
NewHope
Posted: Monday, January 24, 2011 3:34:12 PM
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Bubba, what do you mean, you're on the "list" for the Knopp trial. Is there a waiting list? Have they announced the Phase III sites?

"There is no medicine like hope, no incentive so great, and no tonic so powerful as expectation of something better tomorrow."
Bubba
Posted: Monday, January 24, 2011 4:44:55 PM
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Location: United States
NewHope - I'm in touch with the people at the Cleveland Clinic who have told me they will be participating in the Phase III. I asked to be included in the trial...don't know that they have an official list, but they know I'm interested, I've spoken with my contact there about it several times, and continue to ping them every now and then. I would advise you to contact the major site(s) around you that typically participate in the big trials. For example, I've the Cleveland Clinic and Syracuse sites that usually get involved in the larger trials. In this case I think Pittsburgh will probably also participate as that's the home of Knopp (if I'm not mistaken).

If all else fails, I'd contact someone at Knopp - I'd be shocked it they didn't help you.
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